05-06-2022: The old, skeptical explanation of the resurrection, namely that the crucifixion was a fraud, deserves mention here. The New Testament mentions particular Romans and Pharisees sympathetic to Jesus. Extrapolating, I posit a pro-Jesus faction spanning all segments of that society and including many influential Romans and Pharisees, who would have had the resources necessary to pull off such a deception, but who could not openly interdict the crucifixion for lack of the necessary influence. Thus, the seeming miraculousness of the resurrection would in reality be a measure of the power of the illusion that groups identified as “The Enemy” are implacable and unitary.
Each post presents a science theory I thought of. I am 71 years old and have two science degrees and six peer-reviewed publications.
Showing posts with label reason. Show all posts
Showing posts with label reason. Show all posts
Saturday, March 16, 2019
#51. A Theory of Christianity [Evolutionary Psychology, Population]
EP PO
Red, theory; black, fact.
My gut told me that there is more to be said about Christianity than what I wrote or implied in Post #50. My doubts about the completeness of my work began with this statement by Saint Paul:
“And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.”
1 Corinthians 15:14, KJV
I was struck by the clarity and insistence of this impossible claim. What is going on here? We as theoreticians need to drill down here.
“Risen” means having come back from the dead, which is still an impossibility for modern medicine. However, Paul explains that what dies is a “natural body,” whereas what rises, or is “resurrected,” is a “spirit body,” which is “incorruptible.” The word “resurrection” does not appear in the Old Testament (Hebrew Bible), making its first appearance in Matthew, the first book of the New Testament. All things considered, the concept is obviously central to Christianity.
Postulate 1: Resurrection theology is an approximate theory, and as such, is allowed to contain an impossibility.
Postulate 2: Christianity is focused on taming a third stage of depopulation that follows the anger cycle and the sadness cycle if neither of these has returned population density to the reset value after a certain time (See Post #50 for explanations of these terms.). This is the total war stage, and it takes place on an international scale. Examples are WWI and WWII, which would be the international phases of national conflicts between a central-European majority and Serbs and Jews, respectively. Total war is arguably altruistic because each of two alliances or countries is helping the other with their population problem. The required signaling cycle seems to be that of the anger cycle but with the exchanged signals doing double duty as liquidation tactics. This is not just a fight, where the only consideration is what would be the shrewdest blow; there is a strong tendency to ape the opponent’s latest gambit, as expected in an exchange of signals "designed" to lock non-altruists out of the process. This psychology is called “sending back the bullet” in battlefield situations and “poetic justice” in everyday life. It is satisfying and it is a signal and it is illegal in peacetime, no matter that the other guy started it. In peacetime, you have to search elsewhere for your solutions than in mimicry and cooperation with a dangerous emotional program.
Furthermore, if you allow yourself to be drawn into a vendetta, you just wrote an “ = “ between yourself and the person you take exception to.
The total war program is well known for its destructiveness to the infrastructures of civilization, which suggests that the program evolved recently and is still being refined by natural selection. It may not even be older than agriculture, the last quantum leap in our ability to increase our numbers. That new ability may have generated the selection forces that brought forth the total war program.
Christian theology works a rational override on the anger cycle (See Post #41) by reassuring believers that they will be resurrected and therefore need not fear death. Since anger is fear in disguise, this reassurance undercuts the anger-cycle-like dynamics of the total war program.
Postulate 3: the corresponding exact theory of Christianity is that depopulation events always leave survivors and Christianity enhances your probability of being one of them. When population density has declined to the reset value, this should trigger a dramatic turnaround in the Zeitgeist from death-producing attitudes to nurturing ones, to start the population-density curve on its next long, slow upward climb. The resurrection of “spirit bodies” may refer to the re-establishment of life-valuing attitudes in Society.
03-25-2019: It follows that the human race is being selected for a predisposition to Christianity, and probably other religions as well.
The book of Revelation, the last book in the New
Testament, appears to describe the sudden depopulation event that ends the
population-density cycle. This is wrongly identified as the end of
time/history, but remember that we deal here with an approximate theory.
Christian worship activities revolve around the
Eucharist, a communal sharing and consumption of bread and wine. Its purpose is to eradicate the deepest roots of the fear of
death, a fear that leads to the hatreds of the total-war emotional program. How
does it work?
The Eucharist pacifies people by exposing
them to the halting signal of the total war program. So, it halts. How did the
consumption of bread and wine come to be the halting signal? Because they are
made by people “playing with their food,” for the sake of variety, one
imagines. However, this comes at the cost of caloric content
(not caloric density) because the yeast always takes its cut. This practice
will only make sense under conditions of plenty, which return with sufficient
depopulation. Thus, alcohol (which I assume to be the
active signaling ingredient) and leavened bread now signal to the human limbic
system the return of abundance. I conjecture that these signals have a subtle
pacifying effect, making it easier to resist tit-for-tat total-war signalling.
03-02-2024: Alternatively, Jesus may have been medicating the disciples with food and alcohol to keep their arousal level out of the panic zone at a time of peak emotion so that they could continue to function adaptively.
Wednesday, February 27, 2019
#50. A Naturalistic Theory of Worship [Evolutionary Psychology, Population]
Red,
theory; black, fact.
Preamble
As discussed in Post #48, religion
has a theory part and an applied part. I have termed the latter the ‘pragma’ of
religion, which is basically the modes of worship. Since our moral codes are
held by at least the Abrahamic religions to be commands from God, it would
follow that it’s pretty important to conform to them, and most of us have difficulty
doing this all the time. To help us, religion has developed a behavior-modification
role, the role of the pragma.
The behavior-mod role aims
at mitigating the human form of the Calhoun Effect–a tendency to aggression linked to rising
population density but not to actual want per se. (For an introduction to Calhoun's research, see paragraph 7, Post #37.) Population density would have
been an issue even millennia in the past when the world population was a
minuscule fraction of what it is today, when people began living continuously
inside walled cities for protection from their enemies. Within the inflexible
confines of such a city, you have the makings of a human Calhoun experiment. Not
coincidentally, the city of Jerusalem, sacred to three world religions, was a
walled city. Nowadays, at a world population of 7.5 billion, it can be said
that the world is our walled city. What can religion now tell us about how to
get along?
I focus
here on the Abrahamic religions: Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, which
developed in that order, all in the Middle East, each of the last two
acknowledging its debt to the previous. I suggest that these three religions
form a series of progressively increasing effectiveness in mitigating the
Calhoun Effect, by an accumulation of folkloric knowledge. Thus, to see how
pragma works, the purpose of this post, we need only examine Islam, likely to
represent the most efficient solution. Form generally follows function most
transparently at highest efficiency.
The Human Calhoun Effect
In Post #40 I
surmise that the natural human population density plot
over time has a saw-tooth form, with linear increases alternating with abrupt
decreases that return population density to some repeatable reset value. In Post #2, I surmise that the linear segments are created by a negative-feedback controller
in the limbic system that controls rate-of-change of population density to a
constant positive value, not absolute density. At this writing, the world is
probably coming to the crest of one of these linear segments, which began in
1950. The sudden population-density decrease that ends the cycle is conjectured
to have two phases: a first phase that produces population-density decrease by
emigration, and a second phase that produces population-density decrease by
mass murder, if the first phase does not take the system all the way to the
reset value. The first phase accomplishes the biological function of dispersal,
which is generally important for long-term species survival. The second phase
guarantees overall stability on a multi-cycle time scale and wards off
Malthusian catastrophes.
Both
phases demand formally altruistic acts from individuals, but not of the
warm-and-fuzzy kind. The first phase uses an exchange of anger signals (The
“anger cycle,” see Post #41) to lock non-altruists out of the process so that the
behavior is stable over evolutionary time. The second phase locks out the
non-altruists using an asymmetric exchange of signals: contempt signals going
one way and sadness signals going the other way. (See “The Sadness Cycle,” Post #41). The second phase culminates in the mass murder of the sadness signalers by
the contempt signalers and the appropriation of all the resources of the sadness
signalers by the contempt signalers. The last step guarantees that the contempt
signalers will appear atrociously entitled to those outside the cycle.
Islam
Islam is
conveniently summarized for our purposes as The Five Pillars of Islam, which
are explained in the Quran, namely:
1) The
Creed. (“There is no God but Allah, and Muhammad is the messenger of Allah.”)
2) Prayer.
3) Charity.
(Concealed almsgiving is preferred.)
4) Fasting.
5)
Pilgrimage.
The Theory
The
creed is “The Great Why in the Sky” that people need for the control of their
most difficult emotions. Strong emotion can be overridden by reason if that is
required by a learned worldview, the validity of which the person is willing to
bet their life on. (Here, I attempt to supply a worldview based on evolutionary
psychology.) The creed, or “theory part” of a religion, also gets the rational
mind cooperating with the behavior-modification program, which acts on the
emotional self.
04-03-2019: Rational override based on some creed may begin the work of extirpating someone's anger or sadness cycle, but behavior modification by pragma may be necessary to finish it and produce a lasting improvement in the person's circumstances. These cycles may have deep roots inaccessible to consciousness and capable of perpetuating self-defeating behaviors if not treated appropriately.
Prayer
superficially is a deliberate wasting of time, which is not free in metabolic
terms because the worshipper has a basal metabolic rate that must be supplied
whether he/she works or not. Regular inactivity is surely a luxury of only
those enjoying abundance. This is implicitly saying to the anger and sadness/contempt
programs: “Food is still plentiful, so it’s not time to get nasty.” These
cycles may be triggered by signs of high population density, not actual want,
but they should still be sensitive to metabolic signals that speak to whether
actual scarcity exists. High population density acquired its potent
psychological effects, after all, because it usually predicted scarcity in the
environment of evolutionary adaptedness. <06-14-2021: Alternatively, prayer may work like meditation to turn off the internal voice and the unnecessary stress it causes (if unscripted).>
Charity,
on the receiving end, that is, is for contempt signalers, who, as you will
recall, are extremely entitled in the final stage of their emotional program.
Accepting charity–goods that you did not work for–tells the contempt program
that it has achieved its mission and can therefore halt. So, it does. In Islam,
almsgiving is said to be best done in secret, an effect of which will be to
spare the pride of the recipient. One tends to think that this will be an issue
with contemptuous types. Clearly, we are dealing here with someone whose
contempt-signaler role has caused them to become downwardly mobile.
Fasting–going
without the necessities of life–is for sadness signalers and it tells their
emotional program that they have given or lost all their resources to the
contempt signalers, and therefore their program has achieved its mission and
can halt. So, it does. <11-21-2020: On the other hand, based on my own experience with fasting, the practice may work by increasing the faster's energy level post-fast, and an increased energy level can solve a multitude of problems.>
Pilgrimage
is where you tell the anger-cycle program (with your feet) that you have been
driven out of your homeland forever and must resettle elsewhere. Therefore, the
program has achieved its mission and can halt. So, it does. This idea was
expressed as “giving something to the dispersal drive” in Post #35.
Thus,
the task of much religious behavior-modification can be likened to persuading a
devil to depart by showing him false evidence that he has accomplished his
purpose in coming, knowing that he is myopic. However, prayer tells him that he
doesn’t even have to come in the first place.
(05-23-2024: The tree is gone, apparently a victim of urban buildup. The nearest present-day address may be 179 Clarence, Ottawa.)
Thursday, December 6, 2018
#46. The Goddesses of the Glacier [evolutionary psychology]
Sorry, not found on Unsplash. (Spirits are flying in bearing mukluks and a parka.) |
Red: theory; black, fact.
This post is about long hair, of all things (which I totally
dig; I was in high school during the Sixties and the girls looked like Shetland ponies), and I will argue that humans evolved the trait to keep them
warm during geologically recent continental glaciations. (Please pardon the teleological phrasing; I use it here only for the sake of brevity.)
Can having long hair really confer such a benefit under cold
conditions? The anecdotal evidence supporting this idea seems abundant. For
example, go to the site shown below
for a near-unanimous list of affirmative replies to the question: ‘Does long hair keep you warm?’ One respondent in particular (#32), from Sweden, seems to have exactly reproduced the method for ensuring this that must have been used in eras of glaciation, assuming that our distant forbears could at least make themselves simple parkas out of animal skins.
for a near-unanimous list of affirmative replies to the question: ‘Does long hair keep you warm?’ One respondent in particular (#32), from Sweden, seems to have exactly reproduced the method for ensuring this that must have been used in eras of glaciation, assuming that our distant forbears could at least make themselves simple parkas out of animal skins.
They would have supplemented this protection by tucking their long hair down inside the parka.
Leaving it outside would have been good fashion but bad engineering, since the
locks would have been quickly parted by the first gust of wind and precious,
life-saving body heat lost.
I began this with mention of goddesses, but of course the
males would have had long hair too, probably a meter long, in outrageous
violation of Sixties cultural mainstream gender expectations concerning hair length. I can still hear my Dad fuming about the Beatles.
I find that
this situation suddenly makes better aesthetic sense if you imagine this long
hair as tousled in the males and smooth and perfect-looking in the
females (and perhaps only in the portion showing above the neckline.) Seen this
way, both males and females look gorgeous in the imagination and the aesthetic
problem is solved. I call this the "rock-star solution." The females could have
smoothed their hair by lubricating it with oil and brushing, and a brush is not
hard to make. Meanwhile, the males would only need their fingers for
cultivating a charming, insouciant look.
Of course, I am thinking here of Mick and Keith and the guys.
While moderns socially code gender as hair length, this
parameter was unavailable to our glaciation-era forebears (the last glaciation maximum occurred 26,000 years ago) because they would have been
unwilling to cut their hair, knowing at some level of insight that they needed
it for survival and mating success. Therefore, they might have coded gender as
hair smoothness as described above.
I assume that these people were living in some glaciation "refugium," as such terrain is technically called, which is a fortuitously ice-free zone surrounded by continental glacier.
While writing this, I was struck by the amount of detailed
information I was able to retrieve from my own aesthetic preferences, some of which
would have evolved under stringent, cold-climate conditions to produce mate
choices favoring traits with survival value.
The heart may have its reasons that reason knoweth not, but reason is learning*.
11-26-2019 I have not mentioned beards yet and the main question there is why women do not have them. The answer seems to be that a long beard would interfere with breastfeeding, whereas long scalp hair can be pushed back. Moreover, women have more subcutaneous fat than men, so their thermoregulation problem in a cold climate would not be as severe. (Not to be outdone, my niece insists that she has a beard hair. Go figure.)
*Based on a famous saying by the philosopher Blaise Pascal.
Wednesday, April 4, 2018
#38. The Fallacy of Justice [evolutionary psychology]
Red, theory; black, fact.
4-04-2018: In my treatment of evil and criminality so far, I have tried to show that they sub serve either dispersal or preemptive population reduction, both valuable biological processes that tend to prolong the survival of species.
The algorithms for achieving these ends would have been created over time by some form of evolution, with probably a large component coming from a hypothetical, fast form of evolution I call post-zygotic gamete selection (PGS), where gametes -- individual cells -- are effectively the units of selection. In general, the smaller the unit of selection, the faster the adaptation. PGS may have accelerated evolution to the point where it could be detected by simple record-keeping technologies, which may have led to the first record-keeping peoples eventually realizing that "someone is looking out for us," leading to the invention of monotheism.
The genetically inherited parts of our behavior enter consciousness as emotions, and can therefore be easily identified. The main outlines of civilization are probably due to the inherited behavior component, and not to the reasoning, conscious mind, which is often just a detail-handler. How could civilization rest on a process that can't even remember what happened last weekend?
Thus, humans have a dual input to behavior, emotion and reason. The above arguments show that evil and criminality come from the emotional input. Yet the entire deterrence theory of justice assumes the opposite, by giving the person a logical choice: "You do this, we do that, and you won't like it. So you don't do this, right?"
I'm not so sure. People commit crimes for emotional reasons. As usual, the criminal's reasoning faculties are just an after-the-decision detail handler. The direction that this detail handler then takes is fascinatingly monstrous, but this does not mean that crime begins in reason.
Conclusion: the deterrence theory of justice is based on a category error.
Religion, with its emphasis on emotion, was all the formal "law enforcement system" anyone needed up until only about 200 years ago, at the industrial revolution. We may be able to go beyond where religion takes us by means of a disease model of criminality.
It does make some sense to lock criminals up, because with less freedom they cannot physically commit as many crimes. Many prisons become dungeons, however, because of the public's desire for revenge. However, all revenge-seeking belongs to the dispersal/depopulation dynamic and is thus part of the problem. A desire for revenge may follow a crime very predictably, but logically, it is a non-sequitur.
4-30-2018: A more nuanced theory of crime prevention is possible, where logical and technological constraints on behavior complement efforts to reduce the motivation for committing crimes at the source: the individual's perception of the fairness of society. However, I originally wrote as I did because I don't think that the former is the squeaky wheel at the moment.
Saturday, March 17, 2018
#37. Two Kinds of War [evolutionary psychology, engineering, neuroscience]
Red, theory; black, fact.
3-17-2018: In my post "The Pilgrim and the Whale", I propose that much
human conflict sub serves dispersal.
12-28-2017: There
are probably two basic biological uses for human anger, the other one being an
emergency brake on population increase that avoids Malthusian disasters by
triggering wars. This kind of war ends life without being notably efficient in
producing mass migration. This is the use discussed in my post "The Iatrogenic Conflicts of the Twentieth Century." Mention of the
destruction of Coventry was struck out because it looks better suited to
population reduction than to triggering mass migration.
3-12-2018: I have long wondered why
the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse seem to include two gentlemen both in
charge of warlike matters. Why the apparent duplication? The above postscript
may give the reason: one (the guy with the bow) represents wars of (absolute) depopulation
and the other (the guy with the sword) represents wars of displacement (relative depopulation).
The Coventry Blitz did, however, produce so much mass migration
into the countryside surrounding that city that it was an embarrassment for the
British government, calling into question Britain’s willingness to fight. This
got me thinking: was Coventry some kind of watershed, before which the conflict
was of the displacement type, and afterward, of the depopulation type?
The facts bear this out, considering Nazi treatment of the
Jews as a litmus test of the zeitgeist of that time. After coming to power in
1933, the Nazis aimed at forcing the Jews to emigrate, and by the outbreak of
hostilities in September, 1939, 250,000 of Germany’s 437,000 Jews had done so. The Coventry
Blitz was in November, 1940. The Holocaust began, in terms of men, women, and
children all being targeted for execution, in August, 1941, nine months later. The German zeitgeist, and perhaps that of the world, seems to
have shifted gears in the fall of 1940, aiming at depopulation rather than displacement. I am obviously assuming that the evolutionary, selectionist justification of the Holocaust given at the time, in forums such as the 1942 Wannsee conference, was a rationalization.
I conjecture that wars brought on by
population pressure begin as the displacement type, and if this does not result
in sufficient local reduction in population pressure after a certain time, the
hostilities shift gears to the depopulation type of conflict. If human
population is under PID [proportional-integral-differential] control by the
subconscious, the event causing the shift could be the amount of signal
accumulated on the integrator rising above some threshold. This may actually be a second
threshold, with the first and lower threshold controlling the outbreak of a war
of displacement.
A paradoxical outcome of Calhoun's overpopulation experiments on rodents can be explained in terms of such an integrator. By providing unlimited food and water to a founder population of rats or mice, with regular bedding changes and exclusion of predators and parasites, the rodents were allowed to increase their population to fabulous numbers. However, the rodents were given no extra space. As the population soared to incredible densities, all kinds of pathological behaviors appeared along with a great deal of violence. Birth rates plummeted after a "behavioral sink" developed, and remained low, never recovering, as the population decreased all the way to zero.
My interpretation of the behavioral sink is that it is integrator windup, a pathology of humanly engineered PID controllers, and possibly natural ones too. The signal accumulated on the integrator has been building for so long, and the population crash is so sudden, that not enough time is spent at population densities below set point to cancel the "control debt" on the integrator, so it continues to insanely command a zero birth rate even as the population is heading for zero.
George Santayana wrote that "Fanaticism consists of redoubling your efforts when you have forgotten your aim." [source, Wiki quotes, accessed 06-11-2018] Sounds like integrator windup to me.
3-17-2018: To clean up some loose ends, let us postulate a third and highest threshold of the control debt, which, if crossed, leads to the human behavioral sink and the possible destruction of the human race due to essentially psychological causes. In the behavioral sink, I postulate that everyone would be a ZPG fanatic and unable to change without pharmacological help. (Good old booze? May not be that simple.)
I myself may be a "ZPG fanatic", and produced in exactly this way, because I was born in 1953, just before suburbia became important, and may represent what most people in this country would now be had suburbia not been invented to take down the population pressure. At only 2 months from retirement age, I continue to be a virgin with no plans to change my ways, and I may be a straw in the wind, a harbinger of worse to come.
11-26-2019: I can testify from my own experience that the human behavioral sink is more like passive-aggressive personality disorder than anything else, but with particular attention to punishing the opposite sex by ignoring them.
3-22-2018: Correction: the modern suburbs were invented in London 200 years ago, but underwent explosive growth in North America after WWII. By 1950, half the American population was suburban.
Thursday, February 1, 2018
#36. The Thought Process Through the Ages [evolutionary psychology]
Red, theory; black, fact.
2-01-2018: An alternative title of this post could be: "Where religion possibly fits in the big scheme of things."
If politics and science seem like strange bedfellows,
consider that ancient rulers used to consult astrologers before making major
decisions.
In the beginning, there was theology. At some point, intellectual endeavor split into wrestling with reality questions vs. morality questions. Then they had to figure out when to go with your gut and when not to.
In the beginning, there was theology. At some point, intellectual endeavor split into wrestling with reality questions vs. morality questions. Then they had to figure out when to go with your gut and when not to.
Thought sources
|
Inputs
|
Outputs (all insights):
|
||
Reality (What is)
|
Blend
|
Morality (Thus…)
|
||
PGSd+sensory
data
|
Emotion
|
politicsc
|
religionc
|
|
Blend
|
astrologyb ^ v
|
< theologya >
|
Jewish lawb ^ v
|
|
Education+sensory data
|
Reason
|
sciencec
|
lawc
|
a. primordial condition
b. output distinction added
c. input distinction added
d. “post-zygotic gamete selection,” amateur theory of accelerated
evolution purporting to explain God. See “Emotions” post on this blog.
2-23-2018: Just as emotion must not be allowed to contaminate scientific thought, is it equally true that reason must not be allowed to contaminate religious thought? Is failure to observe this restriction the cause of religious schisms?
08-03-2019: Thought-like processes dominated by emotion are believed to exist, e.g., the "emotional processing" of traumatic memories.
Tuesday, December 26, 2017
#35. The Pilgrim and the Whale [evolutionary psychology]
Red, theory; black, fact.
12-26-17: Just as the whale must hold its breath to obtain its food from the sea, so must a human restrain his or her anger to obtain a paycheck from society. Don't laugh, for the analogy is exact.
The ecological niche occupied by the whale places two of its drives in contradiction: the drive to eat and the drive to breathe. In humans, the contradictory drives are eating and dispersal.
Dispersal is a biological process tending to expand the geographical range of a species. Left to itself, the range shrinks inexorably because of natural disasters such as fire, frost, famine, drought, and pestilence wiping out all members of a given species in a given habitat. When each habitat occupied by the species has had its disaster, the species will be extinct if it has not been dispersing all along. Dispersal re-populates the devastated habitats as they become able to support life again, thereby staving off extinction.
Unfortunately, human dispersal begins with fraught political contests. As soon as one side gets the upper hand, the other must flee. Result: mass migration, i.e., dispersal. Most human anger is really dispersal hunger. However, when people get mad, they break stuff. Stuff like buildings, airports, factories, railway lines, etc. This is the infrastructure on which we all depend for our survival. Because our ecological niche is in a fragile built environment, we are required to compromise between eating and dispersal. And there you have my analysis of the biological roots of our unhappiness.
This contradiction in drives is the ultimate reason why every able-bodied Muslim must make the pilgrimage to Mecca at least once in their lifetime: it mellows them out by giving something to the dispersal drive. The same effect would explain the fact that first-generation immigrants are generally more law-abiding than the natives.
Other institutions that may exist to relieve dispersal hunger are: tourism, the fitness movement, Seeing the World, conference-going, joining the Navy, going away to university, visiting faraway relatives for the holidays, companies moving their employees around a lot, and others I'll think of tomorrow morning.
Happy trails.
2-14-2018: Catholicism is also famous for its tradition of pilgrimage, to such places as Jerusalem, Rome, Lourdes, and Santiago de Compostela, the latter still popular today. Protestantism has no such tradition, however.
3-12-2018: Judaism, Hinduism, and Buddhism all have strong traditions
of pilgrimage, and the practice is so universal that it has been proposed as a
Jungian archetype by Clift and Clift. I myself walk a lot, because I cannot
afford a car or a downtown apartment close to all the amenities. But is that the ultimate reason?
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